Throop Church and Manse July 2011

Update - 13th July 2011

E-mail from Councillor Ronald Whittaker to principle appeals and enforcement officer

12th July 2011

RE: Throop

Nigel,

As always thanks for your pursuance here, note what you say that Wessex Trust will follow up with an email, we will see if that happens as we have had similar promises before as we know from past emails, more so when works would start. And as for the owners of the Mill again we will see, Wessex Trust in December 2010 confirmed that the church under a full repairing and insuring lease by Christmas, again in February, after a phone call to Andy that "They are proceeding with the original proposals, albeit delayed, to allow the Bournemouth International Church to take over the building". So is it not surprising that one is sceptical of these so-called assurances from Wessex Trust, interesting they are preparing a pre-application submission for the rear of the building, here naturally will not make further comments until it comes before conservation and planning officers / planning board.

Am more surprised that some six months on after a break into the manse and the stealing of copper, flooring etc and the owners being informed by a resident and myself that action was then take to secure the Manse, same time we reported the damage to the rear by what then one naturally thought was thief's had rip off the slates, why then did not Wessex Trust the owners of both the Manse and Church then NOT tell the authority that the trust had removed the slates, and yes for what reason what was the purpose of removing the slates well before now we are told of a pending pre-application, was permission required by the trust to undertake this work of removing slates to a listed building?

AS for the Mill owners confirmed that permanent repairs are being investigated and hope to return the Mill to a satisfactory condition in the near future, it was on the 3rd May Andy Williams informed the Mill owners Haygates in Northampton of the damage to the roof that now being nine weeks, yes so called temporary repairs, if one can call them that, this work could and should have been undertaken in days, is it of little wonder that residents / walkers are making endless comments to us.

Nigel like Andy thank you for taking this matter up with both owners, we await once again to see what happens.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

E-mail from principle appeals and enforcement officer

RE: Throop

Dear Councillor Whittaker

I'm pleased to report that my letters to both the Wessex Trust and Heygates have resulted in a response from both parties, in the case of the Wessex Trust a phone call from Stuart MacLean which he's promised to follow up with an e-mail confirming the discussion and a letter from Mr A R Heygate.

In the case of the Throop United Reformed Church and the Manse, Mr MacLean has advised that negotiations with the Bournemouth International Church are continuing but have yet to be concluded. The Trust are considering extending the Manse at the rear and are currently preparing a pre application submission. Mr MacLean has confirmed that the Trust removed the slates from the lean to buildings to the rear and the slates are safely stored within the building pending the outcome of the pre application submission. I've asked for the roof of the lean to be covered with a tarpaulin or appropriate plastic sheeting to preserve the integrity of the structure pending the pre app submission which Mr MacLean has agreed to do.

In the case of Throop Mill Mr Heygate has confirmed that permanent repairs to the roof are being investigated and they hope to return the Mill to a satisfactory condition in the near future.

I shall be pursuing both matters.

Kind regards

E-mail from Councillor Ron Whittaker

RE: Throop

Nigel / Caroline.

With the redundancy of Andy Williams and this section now being brought into Urban design, not sure as to how this will work. My concern is to progress the outstanding matters that Andy and yourself have been engaged in with both the owners of the church and Manse and yes Haygates Throop Mill.

Nigel understand both owners were to be sent formal letters regarding the outstanding damage to both listed buildings and as to the church / manse as to the promises of these buildings being taken over, again nothing is as yet happening.

Understand this are will now come under Caroline Peach section.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

Throop Church and Manse June 2011

1st June 2011

Andy.

Thank you and appreciate you have endeavoured as much as possible to get both United Reform Church [Wessex Trust] to respond to your calls and e-mails, which all are falling on deaf ears. Even after all their so call promises.

Likewise Throop Mill again only temporary repairs to the roof, [if one can call them temporary repairs].

Nigel know we have been through the Throop Mill some few years ago, but any advice help here will be appreciated, cannot English Heritage and SPAB have some form of impute into these listed buildings.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

1st June 2011

Nigel

Is there any formal action we can take on this site? I have contacted the Trust on a number of occasions and have only received a few replies where they state they are in the process of dealing with things.

There is nothing more I can do. I was wondering if there are grounds for a formal Enforcement action to gee the Trust up a bit?

It's the same with Throop Mill - although we have been down this road before and it unfortunately cost the Council money in compensation. We have to be careful that we only act within our powers which actually are quite limited - unless the Council want to compulsorily purchase the buildings.

Andy Williams

Conservation and Design Officer, Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council

Throop Church and Manse May 2011

30th May 2011

Andy.

As I always do, checked out the two buildings today, [Monday], nothing has yet been done to the damage to the rear of the Manse where all the slates have been removed / plus the leading on the lower section. This building is really looking pretty awful through sheer lack of maintenance to the external of the building.'

As we know we were promised that works to the Manse were programme to start before Christmas last 2010, with a view to the Manse being occupied by tenants in February, with the listed church being occupied by the International Church under a full repairing and insuring lease again by Christmas.

Nothing did happen and I appreciate you have been endeavouring to make further representations to Stuart MacLean, [Wessex Trust] again in February, after a phone call from Mr. Maclean of the United Reform Church to yourself that "they are proceeding with the original proposals, albeit delayed, to allow the Bournemouth International Church to take over the Church Building." same time they stated they they intend to properly refurbish the Manse.

Any it is now beginning of June, six months since we and residents were given assurances that works were planned, Six months.

My further concern is that you send an e-mail on the 12th May. And it does seem you still have not had any response to the authorities representations to these two old and listed buildings, although due to our endless e-mailing and the break in into the Manse they boarded up the lower windows. But still have not done anything to the damage to the rear of this building.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

E-mail from Andy Williams - Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council to Councillor Ron Whittaker

12th May 2011

FW: United Reformed Church and Manse

Hello Councillor Whittaker

Below is an email I sent to Stuart MacLean earlier this morning.

Kind regards

Andy Williams

Conservation and Design Officer, Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council

E-mail from Andy Williams - Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council to Stuart Maclean - United Reform Church

12th May 2011

United Reformed Church and Manse

Good morning Mr MacLean

Peter Atfield of Goadsby emailed me on 18th April to let me know that, following a site meeting that day, you would be contacting me to advise on matters including security. I wonder if you could confirm whether there has been progress on proposals to lease the church to the Bournemouth international Church and find an occupant for the Manse (which would be the ideal security for these buildings).

I am very concerned, in the light of the recent break-in, that much more serious harm could occur to both the listed buildings whilst they stand empty and hope that in the interim period good security measures can be put in place.

Kind regard

Andy Williams

Conservation and Design Officer, Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council

Throop Church and Manse April 2011

E-mail from Councillor Ron Whittaker

24th April 2011

RE: Throop United Reformed Church and Manse

Andy.

Further to our emails on the security issues around the Manse and Church. [even more so with the theft of lead and damage caused as reported this week in the echo to the church in Oakdale] have today made my regular visit to check out both building to see if any security measures had been taken to the Manse since your email to Peter Atfield who acts for the trust. Am please to report yes today [Sunday] 12 50 hrs visited and all bottom window have been boarded up from inside of property approaching the FRONT DOOR WAS AMAZED, when trying the door it was UNLOCKED, inside one could see the various repairs undertaken to secure the property, but why the building was unlocked is beyond me, an invitation to yet again more possible possible damage, no point in securing the windows when one leaves the front door unlocked, yes i ensured that the catch was dropped and door secured when leaving.

Andy to the rear all the slate tiles have been totally stripped from the single story outer- buildings roof.

Am hoping that after so many emails that the promised plans of works to the Manse are to proceed, or failing the previous promises, why does the Trust not market the Manse, and any update on the occupation of the listed church as so promised, more so due to our warning about raids on Churches through out Dorset, as to what plans are in place for security measures to the church as again previous identified by us to the Wessex Trust, after all the community are all trying to keep a watchful eye on both buildings which does not seem to be appreciated by the present church owners.

As always Andy really do appreciate all your help on this.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

E-mail from Councillor Ron Whittaker

21st April 2011

FW: Muscliff

Andy.

NOW AFTER US MAKING CONTACT WITH POLICE ON A NUMBER OF UNWELCOME THEFTS WITH THE Muscliff area, more so the Manse and my concern regarding the church and its lead flashing around the roof, have we as yet had any response from the owners as to security measures, including date of any possible works on the Manse as so promised, as always will be checking the two premises over the Easter holidays.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

Reply from Councillor Ronald Whittaker

21st April 2011

RE: Muscliff

Sir.

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR EMAIL AS YOU FROM MY PREVIOUS EMAILS THAT I HAVE ON REGULAR OCCASIONS CHECK OUT THE MANSE AND CHURCH AND THROUGH OUR CONSERVATION OFFICER WE HAVE GIVEN PLENTY OF WARNINGS TO THE WESSEX TRUST ABOUT SECURITY MEASURES OF THESE TWO LISTED BUILDINGS,THEY SAY THAT ALL OF THIS IS BEING NOW ATTENDED TOO, TIME WILL TELL. MEANTIME THANK YOU IT IS APPRECIATED.

CLLR RON

E-mail from Guy Nicholas

21st April 2011

Muscliff

Dear All,

It has come to my attention that there has been a couple of incidents in relation to thefts, criminal damage and entry to churches within our ward area. Thou I certainly don't want to be raising alarms as they do seem to be isolated incidents can I please ask that we all pay particular attention to Shelley Lane, Sandringham Gardens and disused churches and adjoining building in our area. As we don't want these to turn into a series of incidents.

SNT - I have created a neighbourhood tasking for this issue, which will enable response officers to also police it. During day shifts Mike can i ask that you look at these areas also (I know you have already started on it). Keith, Nicki and Steve can I please ask that when Q on your areas that your default patrolling areas are the ones mentioned above for the next couple of weeks.

Cllrs - Unsure if you are aware of the voting pages on our website, I would be grateful if you could pass onto your ward residents to visit the website Throop and Muscliffe at http://www.dorset.police.uk/Default.aspx?page=816 and then it gives them an opportunity to vote for issues which effect their area. This enables us to get a broader view of concerns alongside single issues.

ta

Guy

PS 1644 - SNT Sgt for Moordown/Throop and Muscliffe/Strouden/Townsend SNT's

Reply from Councillor Ron Whittaker

18th April 2011

RE: Throop United Reformed Church and Manse

Andy.

Thank you really do appreciate your comments and support here, as you so rightly point out we have forever been warning of the security issues and very clear warnings of leaving these properties empty, which has fallen on deaf ears to the owners. Check property out Saturday the door was secure but could see the amount of floor boards that had been lifted including the damage as listed in my email.

See from Peter Atfield that he is meeting today with Stuart Maclean.

Councillor Ron Whittaker

E-mail from Andy Williams - Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council to Peter Atfield

18th April 2011

Throop United Reformed Church and Manse

Peter

I see you have had a copy of Councillor Whittaker’s email; are you still acting on behalf of the Trust? If you are, I would appreciate it if you could contact the Trust and arrange first for the Manse to be secured and secondly ascertain whether the trust have finalised their negotiations in respect of the Bournemouth International Church taking possession of the church and a tenant being secured for the Manse (as I was informed by Mr Maclean their property officer). If any damage has been caused this will have to be rectified quickly. I have to say we have been warning of the consequences of leaving the properties empty for some time and as these properties are listed it is imperative that they are secured and any damage rectified otherwise enforcement action could ensue.

Kind regards

Andy Williams

Conservation and Design Officer, Planning and Transport, Bournemouth Council